Comments on: A second chance for fourth edition? http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789 games, programming, nerd stuff Thu, 02 Sep 2010 04:04:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Fred http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-2644 Fred Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:55:34 +0000 http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789#comment-2644 I guess I am a sucker. I will be buying this. :) I guess I am a sucker. I will be buying this. :)

]]> By: MJ Harnish http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-2310 MJ Harnish Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:08:31 +0000 http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789#comment-2310 I doubt the "essentials" line are going to be the products that bring you back to the fold - in many ways, they're just repackaging the existing stuff in to scaled down forms that will end up costing people a lot more $$$ because the same info is spread over multiple books. For example, the new "box set" covers only levels 1 & 2. That means within a couple of weeks of buying it, you're going to have to go out and buy more stuff if you want to keep playing. The essential line also likely won't change the terrible "encounter-encounter-rest, rinse-repeat" cycle that WotC has used in almost all of its prepublished adventures. KotS is a perfect example of it. I can completely identify with everything you wrote about your 4E experiences. However, I will tell you a secret: You can get exactly the experience you want (i.e., a more focused game with fewer options and weird stuff) simply by creating a campaign where you restrict player options. Don't like Eladrin? Just don't allow them. Same goes for Tielfling. Warlocks not to your liking? Dump them too. I had the same experience you did with my first attempt at running 4E and wrote the game off. Then I picked up the DMG2 on a lark (well, I won it on Ebay for about $12) and I really liked what I read in it. At that point I decided to give the game another shot but to do so by creating a setting for us to play in that jettisoned the goofy "million & one options." I did so by simply eliminating stuff I didn't like, as well as asking my players what they wanted to play. In the end we decided that there would be no "real" gods and so all divine power-based classes were banned. We also made all of the fey races (gnomes & eladrin) off-limits as PCs (the fey are a major NPC influence though), and eliminated a bunch of other player races that no one was interested in playing or didn't fit (goliaths, tiefling, devas, and anything introduced outside the PHB 1 & 2). The results have been a LOT more satisfying and the game has a focus now. Of course this isn't going to solve all the issues with 4E some people have, but by narrowing the scope of what's available in the world you can really improve the coherency and uniqueness of what is present, and make the whole thing feel a lot more "old school." Best yet, you don't need to get suckered in to spending another $20 for a box set which is basically going to do that for you, only in a way that you can't control and which will only last you for a couple of weeks of play. I doubt the “essentials” line are going to be the products that bring you back to the fold – in many ways, they’re just repackaging the existing stuff in to scaled down forms that will end up costing people a lot more $$$ because the same info is spread over multiple books. For example, the new “box set” covers only levels 1 & 2. That means within a couple of weeks of buying it, you’re going to have to go out and buy more stuff if you want to keep playing. The essential line also likely won’t change the terrible “encounter-encounter-rest, rinse-repeat” cycle that WotC has used in almost all of its prepublished adventures. KotS is a perfect example of it.

I can completely identify with everything you wrote about your 4E experiences. However, I will tell you a secret: You can get exactly the experience you want (i.e., a more focused game with fewer options and weird stuff) simply by creating a campaign where you restrict player options. Don’t like Eladrin? Just don’t allow them. Same goes for Tielfling. Warlocks not to your liking? Dump them too.

I had the same experience you did with my first attempt at running 4E and wrote the game off. Then I picked up the DMG2 on a lark (well, I won it on Ebay for about $12) and I really liked what I read in it. At that point I decided to give the game another shot but to do so by creating a setting for us to play in that jettisoned the goofy “million & one options.” I did so by simply eliminating stuff I didn’t like, as well as asking my players what they wanted to play. In the end we decided that there would be no “real” gods and so all divine power-based classes were banned. We also made all of the fey races (gnomes & eladrin) off-limits as PCs (the fey are a major NPC influence though), and eliminated a bunch of other player races that no one was interested in playing or didn’t fit (goliaths, tiefling, devas, and anything introduced outside the PHB 1 & 2). The results have been a LOT more satisfying and the game has a focus now.

Of course this isn’t going to solve all the issues with 4E some people have, but by narrowing the scope of what’s available in the world you can really improve the coherency and uniqueness of what is present, and make the whole thing feel a lot more “old school.” Best yet, you don’t need to get suckered in to spending another $20 for a box set which is basically going to do that for you, only in a way that you can’t control and which will only last you for a couple of weeks of play.

]]> By: Mike http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-2308 Mike Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:13:23 +0000 http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789#comment-2308 I definitely agree that first level pc's in older editions are too feeble. That's one of my main problems with Basic D&D. Yeah, I know all the tricks about keeping them alive with hirelings and what not but nobody I've ever played with liked to do that. It is a decidedly unheroic way to play. I definitely agree that first level pc’s in older editions are too feeble. That’s one of my main problems with Basic D&D. Yeah, I know all the tricks about keeping them alive with hirelings and what not but nobody I’ve ever played with liked to do that. It is a decidedly unheroic way to play.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-2307 Anonymous Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:01:00 +0000 http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789#comment-2307 I think it's going to be great. One thing that the OSR doesn't get is that there are a lot of people who like the power options and beefier heroes at first level. Not everyone wants to go down into a dungeon to get killed by a kobold with a pointed stick. That sucked in 1982 and it sucks now. I think it’s going to be great. One thing that the OSR doesn’t get is that there are a lot of people who like the power options and beefier heroes at first level. Not everyone wants to go down into a dungeon to get killed by a kobold with a pointed stick. That sucked in 1982 and it sucks now.

]]> By: greywulf http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789&cpage=1#comment-2305 greywulf Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:48:09 +0000 http://www.hackslash.net/?p=789#comment-2305 I think the Dungeon Master's Book is worth the price of the Starter Kit alone. Add in the dungeon tiles and the counters, and it's a bargain. That's my humble opinion, anyhow. I look forward to hearing what you think :D I think the Dungeon Master’s Book is worth the price of the Starter Kit alone. Add in the dungeon tiles and the counters, and it’s a bargain.

That’s my humble opinion, anyhow. I look forward to hearing what you think :D

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